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Won't start if battery runs out!
December 12, 2012
3:38 pm
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pprass
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JungleGhost said

Lastly, remove tracks .. you get the idea .. try to isolate the problem to one of the items that you have removed and please do not forget to do the Waypoints.

However, you probably have done this so forgive me if I am recommending something that you have already done.

JG

I have by mistake done part of this experiment and found that I had to go back and remove the Active Track file otherwise it wouldn't start.  So what happened was that I removed Geocaches, Images and WPTs, but forgot to remove Track.  Didn't start, so I went back in and removed Tracks and it started.  However I have not performed the experiment in the exact precise method that you describe.  I'll do it next time it shutas down.

December 4, 2012
11:50 am
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phild31
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JG,

Yes, the only time under normal use I have a problem with rechargeables is in driving mode.

I decided to follow your advice about not using a power adapter to run the 710 in my vehicle.

So, I now use a Hyperkin 10,000 mAh battery to power my 710 in the truck.

I do a lot of driving around while geocaching so having a power supply is better than changing the AAs constantly.

The battery will power the unit for several days before needing to be recharged and I can recharge it in the truck if necessary.

I use it with my bicycle and all day hiking & hunting excursions also.

 

Phil

When in trouble or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout

December 4, 2012
9:09 am
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phild31 said
JungleGhost said

 

Peter,

 

The problem is apparently the starting voltage.   Rechargeables are technically 0.50 Volts LOWER at fully charge without a load below the alkaline batteries.   When the unit starts up the current draw is high and thus like unlike a generator .. the unit cannot shed the starting load.

 

The real question is .. "Does this problem go away with fresh Alkaline or Lithium batteries?"

 

JG

 

JG, if what you are saying is the problem then would that mean that rechargeable batteries can not be used in these units because the starting load is too high?

What Peter describes has happened 3 times with my 710, each time it eventually started after several tries using rechargeable batteries. Rechargeable batteries were all I had with me at the time.

Once it happened when I had alkaline batteries go dead and it wouldn't restart properly with new alkaline in it.

My 710 starts with partially dead rechargeable batteries without issue unless it shuts down because of "low batteries".

It seams to be a problem with the power management program of the units.

The real question should be .."Why does this happen at all, no matter what type of battery is used?"

 

Hi Phil,

I agree that the problem should not be rechargeables.  The only time that rechargeables give us a problem are when in the City Mode.  The City Mode draws a lot of current to speak and rechargeables sometimes prevent the directions from being issued.

JG

JG Technical Support is part of Jungle Ghost Enterprises (JGE) in Wayne, NJ. JG created JGE in 2007 specifically as a Repair and Service Center Worldwide for Magellan Triton and the New Explorist X10 units. For the record, JG received his moniker from the Kachins in Burma.  In Burmese he is "Dua Ma Rung".

December 4, 2012
9:06 am
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pprass said

JungleGhost said

Peter,

The problem is apparently the starting voltage.   Rechargeables are technically 0.50 Volts LOWER at fully charge without a load below the alkaline batteries.   When the unit starts up the current draw is high and thus like unlike a generator .. the unit cannot shed the starting load.

The real question is .. "Does this problem go away with fresh Alkaline or Lithium batteries?"

JG

No it doesn't JG!  I have tried straight out of the packet Lithium and Alkaline thinking it would "jolt" the unit into action with that extra power.  I have also tried it connected to the PC - surely that should be providing adequate power - but no.  The only way I had any success was to remove all files from the GPSr - including the Active Track.  It's as though it has enough power to get it started if it doesn't have to load Geocaches, images, tracks etc.

Peter

Hi Peter,

I just wanted to make sure that it is not a simple solution like use alkaline, etc.  So you have proven that it has nothing to do with the Battery monitoring problem.   Also I personally use rechargeables without incidence.

Now you must start to remove one item at a time.  Assuming that you did not add any images using your PC to transfer it should not be images.  But remove just the images and test.  Keep a set of almost discharged rechargeables to use in this experiment.  You can always just give them a five minute charge after they fail to set them up for the next experiment.

With the images renstalled remove just the Geocaches and test and replace.

Lastly, remove tracks .. you get the idea .. try to isolate the problem to one of the items that you have removed and please do not forget to do the Waypoints.

If you can get to that stage and find the area controlling the problem then you have to one by one remove items in the category to see what turns up.

However, you probably have done this so forgive me if I am recommending something that you have already done.

I wish I could help you more but we have never encountered this problem in any of the units we either tested or repaired.

JG

JG Technical Support is part of Jungle Ghost Enterprises (JGE) in Wayne, NJ. JG created JGE in 2007 specifically as a Repair and Service Center Worldwide for Magellan Triton and the New Explorist X10 units. For the record, JG received his moniker from the Kachins in Burma.  In Burmese he is "Dua Ma Rung".

December 4, 2012
8:35 am
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phild31
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JungleGhost said

 

Peter,

 

The problem is apparently the starting voltage.   Rechargeables are technically 0.50 Volts LOWER at fully charge without a load below the alkaline batteries.   When the unit starts up the current draw is high and thus like unlike a generator .. the unit cannot shed the starting load.

 

The real question is .. "Does this problem go away with fresh Alkaline or Lithium batteries?"

 

JG

 

JG, if what you are saying is the problem then would that mean that rechargeable batteries can not be used in these units because the starting load is too high?

What Peter describes has happened 3 times with my 710, each time it eventually started after several tries using rechargeable batteries. Rechargeable batteries were all I had with me at the time.

Once it happened when I had alkaline batteries go dead and it wouldn't restart properly with new alkaline in it.

My 710 starts with partially dead rechargeable batteries without issue unless it shuts down because of "low batteries".

It seams to be a problem with the power management program of the units.

The real question should be .."Why does this happen at all, no matter what type of battery is used?"

When in trouble or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout

December 4, 2012
5:05 am
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JungleGhost said

Peter,

The problem is apparently the starting voltage.   Rechargeables are technically 0.50 Volts LOWER at fully charge without a load below the alkaline batteries.   When the unit starts up the current draw is high and thus like unlike a generator .. the unit cannot shed the starting load.

The real question is .. "Does this problem go away with fresh Alkaline or Lithium batteries?"

JG

No it doesn't JG!  I have tried straight out of the packet Lithium and Alkaline thinking it would "jolt" the unit into action with that extra power.  I have also tried it connected to the PC - surely that should be providing adequate power - but no.  The only way I had any success was to remove all files from the GPSr - including the Active Track.  It's as though it has enough power to get it started if it doesn't have to load Geocaches, images, tracks etc.

Peter

December 3, 2012
10:54 am
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pprass said

ShortcutHicksy said

pprass said 
The Magellan screen popped up with that "radar" icon sweeping around - and then it just stopped Cry.

 

Hi Peter,

I assume you waited a little while after the radar icon stopped. It always stops on my 710, sometimes more than once in the boot up but then it starts.

Graham.

PS Only talking seconds, not minutes.

Graham,

Yes I know what you are describing - it sort of does a hiccup or a stall and then jumps straight into action with the map screen.  But - no, in my case it just freezes and nothing happens.  However I just remembered that at times when I wait long enough it comes up with that Batteries need changing screen and does that countdown.  Gets to 1 second and then that's it - just stays there.

Peter,

The problem is apparently the starting voltage.   Rechargeables are technically 0.50 Volts LOWER at fully charge without a load below the alkaline batteries.   When the unit starts up the current draw is high and thus like unlike a generator .. the unit cannot shed the starting load.

The real question is .. "Does this problem go away with fresh Alkaline or Lithium batteries?"

JG

JG Technical Support is part of Jungle Ghost Enterprises (JGE) in Wayne, NJ. JG created JGE in 2007 specifically as a Repair and Service Center Worldwide for Magellan Triton and the New Explorist X10 units. For the record, JG received his moniker from the Kachins in Burma.  In Burmese he is "Dua Ma Rung".

December 3, 2012
8:07 am
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pprass said

ShortcutHicksy said

pprass said 
The Magellan screen popped up with that "radar" icon sweeping around - and then it just stopped Cry.

 

Hi Peter,

I assume you waited a little while after the radar icon stopped. It always stops on my 710, sometimes more than once in the boot up but then it starts.

Graham.

PS Only talking seconds, not minutes.

Graham,

Yes I know what you are describing - it sort of does a hiccup or a stall and then jumps straight into action with the map screen.  But - no, in my case it just freezes and nothing happens.  However I just remembered that at times when I wait long enough it comes up with that Batteries need changing screen and does that countdown.  Gets to 1 second and then that's it - just stays there.

 

Peter,

It looking like it is a power management problem, the software believes there is a low voltage issue when there is not.

I have experienced the start up problems when I have had genuine low voltage. Then when I put in fully charged batteries it still has trouble starting. The software around voltage management appears to be poorly designed.

Though your 710 may have a hardware or data problem as well.

Graham.

December 3, 2012
4:56 am
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ShortcutHicksy said

pprass said 
The Magellan screen popped up with that "radar" icon sweeping around - and then it just stopped Cry.

 

Hi Peter,

I assume you waited a little while after the radar icon stopped. It always stops on my 710, sometimes more than once in the boot up but then it starts.

Graham.

PS Only talking seconds, not minutes.

Graham,

Yes I know what you are describing - it sort of does a hiccup or a stall and then jumps straight into action with the map screen.  But - no, in my case it just freezes and nothing happens.  However I just remembered that at times when I wait long enough it comes up with that Batteries need changing screen and does that countdown.  Gets to 1 second and then that's it - just stays there.

December 3, 2012
4:52 am
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JungleGhost said

Just a hunch .. please set your battery to ALKALINE.

 

Yes I did have it set to ALKALINE.

December 1, 2012
11:16 pm
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pprass said 
The Magellan screen popped up with that "radar" icon sweeping around - and then it just stopped Cry.

 

Hi Peter,

I assume you waited a little while after the radar icon stopped. It always stops on my 710, sometimes more than once in the boot up but then it starts.

Graham.

PS Only talking seconds, not minutes.

December 1, 2012
10:07 pm
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pprass said
Ok - next installment.

 

The 710 shut down on me due to low batteries after the low battery message came up a couple of times.  So with great trepidation, I inserted 2 fully charged rechargeable batteries and pressed the Power On button.  The Magellan screen popped up with that "radar" icon sweeping around - and then it just stopped Cry.  I then swore at it out load, took the batteries out, put them back in and pressed the Power button again and this time it fired up!Smile.

 

So it seems that the problem is still there, but it only takes 2 or 3 goes to get it started again, compared to (and I am not exaggerating here) over 30 times in the past.

 

Regarding the round-about issue, are you referring to the chimes that always sound the "go straight ahead" chime regardless if I am going to take the 1st or 3rd exit?  If so, then that still happens.  Even if I am taking the 1st exit (ie turning left in Aus) I get the "go straight ahead" chime.

Peter,

Just a hunch .. please set your battery to ALKALINE.

As for the chimes .. update would not handle this problem.

JG

JG Technical Support is part of Jungle Ghost Enterprises (JGE) in Wayne, NJ. JG created JGE in 2007 specifically as a Repair and Service Center Worldwide for Magellan Triton and the New Explorist X10 units. For the record, JG received his moniker from the Kachins in Burma.  In Burmese he is "Dua Ma Rung".

December 1, 2012
9:14 pm
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Ok - next installment.

 

The 710 shut down on me due to low batteries after the low battery message came up a couple of times.  So with great trepidation, I inserted 2 fully charged rechargeable batteries and pressed the Power On button.  The Magellan screen popped up with that "radar" icon sweeping around - and then it just stopped Cry.  I then swore at it out load, took the batteries out, put them back in and pressed the Power button again and this time it fired up!Smile.

 

So it seems that the problem is still there, but it only takes 2 or 3 goes to get it started again, compared to (and I am not exaggerating here) over 30 times in the past.

 

Regarding the round-about issue, are you referring to the chimes that always sound the "go straight ahead" chime regardles if I am going to take the 1st or 3rd exit?  If so, then that still happens.  Even if I am taking the 1st exit (ie turning left in Aus) I get the "go straight ahead" chime.

November 28, 2012
7:32 am
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Sorceress said

JungleGhost said

pprass said

JungleGhost said
Email resent .. had to redo it so it may have more information than original.
JG

Thanks - It is Friday 23 Nov and haven't received the email.

email address is: [email protected].

Peter,

Any results to report from your Battery Drain Experiment? Smile

Also please check to see if the Australian Map Program on roundabout has improved.  I do not believe that it will improve but it is worth checking for us.

If so, then I have some information to report to David.

JG

JG,

Will this method that Peter tried work on the USA models?

-S-

Sorceress ... YES IT WILL ON THE 710 units.

JG

November 27, 2012
10:41 pm
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Sorceress said

JungleGhost said

pprass said

JungleGhost said
Email resent .. had to redo it so it may have more information than original.
JG

Thanks - It is Friday 23 Nov and haven't received the email.

email address is: [email protected].

Peter,

Any results to report from your Battery Drain Experiment? Smile

Also please check to see if the Australian Map Program on roundabout has improved.  I do not believe that it will improve but it is worth checking for us.

If so, then I have some information to report to David.

JG

JG,

Will this method that Peter tried work on the USA models?

-S-

Sorceress ... YES IT WILL ON THE 710 units.

JG

JG Technical Support is part of Jungle Ghost Enterprises (JGE) in Wayne, NJ. JG created JGE in 2007 specifically as a Repair and Service Center Worldwide for Magellan Triton and the New Explorist X10 units. For the record, JG received his moniker from the Kachins in Burma.  In Burmese he is "Dua Ma Rung".

November 27, 2012
10:24 pm
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JungleGhost said

pprass said

JungleGhost said
Email resent .. had to redo it so it may have more information than original.
JG

Thanks - It is Friday 23 Nov and haven't received the email.

email address is: [email protected].

Peter,

Any results to report from your Battery Drain Experiment? Smile

Also please check to see if the Australian Map Program on roundabout has improved.  I do not believe that it will improve but it is worth checking for us.

If so, then I have some information to report to David.

JG

JG,

Will this method that Peter tried work on the USA models?

-S-

November 27, 2012
3:15 pm
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pprass said

JungleGhost said
Email resent .. had to redo it so it may have more information than original.
JG

Thanks - It is Friday 23 Nov and haven't received the email.

email address is: [email protected].

Peter,

Any results to report from your Battery Drain Experiment? Smile

Also please check to see if the Australian Map Program on roundabout has improved.  I do not believe that it will improve but it is worth checking for us.

If so, then I have some information to report to David.

JG

JG Technical Support is part of Jungle Ghost Enterprises (JGE) in Wayne, NJ. JG created JGE in 2007 specifically as a Repair and Service Center Worldwide for Magellan Triton and the New Explorist X10 units. For the record, JG received his moniker from the Kachins in Burma.  In Burmese he is "Dua Ma Rung".

November 25, 2012
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pprass said

Thanks JG - I ran the files as per your instructions and all seems to be well so far Smile

I have tried "tripping" the unit by pulling out the batteries without powering down and it starts immediately when starting up again. I need to wait to see what happens when the batteries run down and the unit shuts down due to low power.

I didn't lose anything in the process - maps and all settings were ok. Just not sure why I needed a 4 gb SD card as the files when loaded onto it were just 132 mb - hope I didn't miss anything vitalConfused

Peter

For the members .. here is a copy of the complete message that I receive from Peter and my reply to his comments.

From Peter: "Thanks Ed,

I followed the instructions and so far it looks as though the fault has disappeared. I loaded a heap of caches (6,600) and booted the unit up and then pulled the batteries out without pressing the power off button first. Put the batteries back in and pressed the power button and – voila! It started – and a lot faster as well it seems The next test will be to wait for the batteries to die (which won’t take too long – btw see below on an interesting story on this issue) and not take them out until the unit shuts down due to low power.

Just a few comments to make:
1. I used an 8gb Micro SDHC card, but when I extracted the files onto it, it only took up 132 mb?
2. None of my maps or settings were affected by the procedure.

Batteries:
While out caching with a friend who has a Garmin 60CSX, the battery indicator on my 710 after 4 or so hours started to show red/orange meaning low power. So I took them out and replaced them in fear that the unit would shut down on me. My friends GPS also ran out of batteries but he didn’t have another set with him, so thinking that mine were not fully discharged I gave them to him thinking that it would tie him over until he got to the car – 30 minutes or so.
Now – do you know what happened? The battery indicator on his Garmin using my “red/orange” indicated batteries showed 80% full!!! He continued to use those batteries for the rest of the day and half the next!!! There is something really weird going on with the eXplorist power consumption/meter that’s for sure.

Regards

Peter

From Me to Peter:

Peter,

I am going to move your message to the exploristforum and I will answer your questions here and on the forum.

I think that all member should be aware of your experiment.

Please keep me updated.

As for the 4GB MicroSDHC card. Personally anything lower isn't worth purchasing.

As for the Red/Orange please set the battery indicator to ALKALINE and tell me what happened. There is a software bug in the monitor and it will be fixed in 7.03.

As for the maps .. they will not be effected but just in case your unit hiccups .. I wanted you to back up all your internal memory files.

Regards,

JG

JG Technical Support is part of Jungle Ghost Enterprises (JGE) in Wayne, NJ. JG created JGE in 2007 specifically as a Repair and Service Center Worldwide for Magellan Triton and the New Explorist X10 units. For the record, JG received his moniker from the Kachins in Burma.  In Burmese he is "Dua Ma Rung".

November 25, 2012
1:02 am
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pprass
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Thanks JG - I ran the files as per your instructions and all seems to be well so far Smile

I have tried "tripping" the unit by pulling out the batteries without powering down and it starts immediately when starting up again. I need to wait to see what happens when the batteries run down and the unit shuts down due to low power.

I didn't lose anything in the process - maps and all settings were ok. Just not sure why I needed a 4 gb SD card as the files when loaded onto it were just 132 mb - hope I didn't miss anything vitalConfused

Peter

November 22, 2012
9:07 pm
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pprass said

JungleGhost said
Email resent .. had to redo it so it may have more information than original.
JG

Thanks - It is Friday 23 Nov and haven't received the email.

email address is: [email protected].

Peter.. Last email you sent us was [email protected] so we sent it to that email address.

Unfortunately, we did not keep a copy.

Please look in this account.

JG

JG Technical Support is part of Jungle Ghost Enterprises (JGE) in Wayne, NJ. JG created JGE in 2007 specifically as a Repair and Service Center Worldwide for Magellan Triton and the New Explorist X10 units. For the record, JG received his moniker from the Kachins in Burma.  In Burmese he is "Dua Ma Rung".

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